124. The Truth About Powerful Branding: Why Being Liked Is Killing Your Brand Power w/Olivia Denton Thomas

Phylicia Pough: 00:00:00

Hey, friend. You're listening to Harmonious Mompreneur, where faith, family and business come together.

I'm your host, Felicia Pugh, a Christian wife, mom of two, and life and business system strategist for moms.

If you've ever felt like there just aren't enough hours in the day or find yourself craving more time for yourself but feel guilty about it, you're in the right place. While many strive for balance, I believe it's harmony, an integrated flow that works for you, that truly sustains.

Each week, I'll share insights from my personal journey and practical strategies to help you design systems that bring peace to your business and home life. So give your kids another snack, take a deep breath and let's dive into today's episode where we'll start creating your harmonious mompreneur life.

Hey friends. Welcome to another episode. Thank you so much for being here. As always, I am excited because we have a guest with us.

Our guest is Olivia Denton Thomas, also known as the brand counselor. And she helps black women and friends move from hustling to wholeness through powerful brand strategy.

As the founder of One tensional development company, she equips, guides and supports women who've left corporate careers to shed the good girl identity, own their voice in business and become their client's go to expert.

Olivia specializes in crafting emotive story driven brand systems using her MAP methodology to attract and retain loyal clients, dream partners and employees. She's worked with business owners to scale client bases, raise capital and build teams, enabling them to make more money while working less overtime.

Olivia uses her background in public relations and her master's in digital journalism to help women build and tell the most compelling strategic stories that resonate deeply across digital and traditional platforms.

With a commitment to becoming a strategic partner, she focuses on her clients long term goals, enabling them to fulfill their mission, create social change and increase impact in ways they hadn't imagined possible before. What a bio. Okay, this has been one of my favorite bio to read. I was telling her earlier like I read the bio and I was like this is so good.

Like I want to become a client now. Olivia, welcome. How are you?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:02:23

Thank you, Felicia. I'm.

Phylicia Pough: 00:02:25

I'm.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:02:26

Well, I'm well, I'm excited about life. You know, I'm energized. I'm extremely energized.

Phylicia Pough: 00:02:31

That is so good to hear and I'm excited for this conversation. A lot of the guests I have brought on I've met in the online space, but I've actually met Olivia in Person years.

I don't even know how long it's been now. A long time ago. We both lived in the same city. At the time. We were both a part of a local business chamber. And I don't even remember how we met.

I just felt like we gravitated towards each other. Like, I feel like I know you, but we didn't really know each other, and we just kind of supported each other over the years.

And so I'm excited to finally have you here on the podcast so we can have this conversation and catch up, too. People can just listen to our catch up.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:03:13

That part. That part. Seriously? Yeah. I remember meeting.

I remember the day I met you because I was just like, you feel so familiar to me and like, maybe it was just your spirit and it was like, hey, you guys should be friends. And I'm so glad we are. Seriously?

Phylicia Pough: 00:03:27

Yes, yes. It's always great when you meet a, like, spirit and good people. So, so glad that you're here, but go ahead.

I know I read your bio already, but tell people a little bit more about you and let's get into what life looks like for you at this intersection of motherhood and entrepreneurship these days.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:03:47

Oh, my gosh. I'm somebody's wife. I'm somebody's mama. I always start with those things because they're my reason for everything. Right?

Like, I have my why, I have my mission, but I'm a firm believer that my business is supposed to support my life and never the other way around. Right. So I always, like, start with what's most important to me, and that's very much my family business right now. Life right now.

It all looks like really creating more alignment. Right? Really creating more alignment and really working through more self care. I. I've discovered that the.

The best brand strategy that comes from me is one that is based in my own care.

So making sure that everybody is understanding that mom needs some time, some time setting up and teaching different boundaries for them, because that's one of the things that I really want them to understand, like whether I'm talking to you, you know, one on one, or whether you're thinking about the work that you're doing. Boundaries and care are extremely important because we as individuals only work well, like interpersonally, if we're taken care of individually.

So, you know, those are the things that I am. I am jumping into right now as a. As both a mom and an entrepreneur. And that's a big thing that I teach my clients as well.

Phylicia Pough: 00:05:11

Yeah. And you're speaking the language That I love talking about boundaries and self care, especially as moms. But I know you have older children.

A lot of people listening have like younger kids. Is your son, is he 18 already or 18.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:05:25

He's a senior now. So because I have my senior, I have my one. And then my husband brought me three girls.

So they are, you know, two of them are older, for one of them is 11. And she is, when she's around, she's my shadow. That's my little person.

And you know, even, even with her being able to kind of show her what creating space for herself and creating like, honesty actually looks like, as well as she like, develops into who she's like becoming and what she wants to practice and you know, the discovery of like this moment of her life, um, it's. It's been interesting, it's been amazing to kind of like walk with her through that journey while I'm walking through it myself.

Mm, that's so interesting.

Phylicia Pough: 00:06:15

I'm like, not that I'm nervous, but I guess it's the unknown parenting older children because it's like now they're young, they're sheltered, you can kind of have this influence over them.

But once when they start getting that age, it's like, how do you start not molding them but, you know, getting them prepared to go out into the real world for real.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:06:34

So, I mean, I think at that point, or for me anyway, it's kind of allowing them to have agency.

It's like at this point, like, you're learning how to step back a little bit more and you are more like guiding their decision making instead of dictating it. So helping them to understand, like, is this good for you? Who are you? What do you really want from this moment?

And then making a decision from it, it takes. It's a ridiculous amount of work. It's so much work. And I think that's why I started even getting into like, oh, wait, mom needs a break.

Because when I am around you, like, I'm not just like taking care of you and nurturing you in the ways that I want, but I'm also helping you figure out, like, who you are and what you care about. And that is like, mentally and emotionally taxing because they also experience pain.

My son just reached out to me talking about asking a girl to prom, and he is like, she said, I'll think about it, Mom. And I'm just like, oh, buddy, I am.

You're going to have to feel this and I'm going to hug you and we can make Brownies but you're going to have to feel it.

Phylicia Pough: 00:07:50

Oh, my goodness.

Just hearing this perspective is really good because, you know, again, with the younger ones, it's like you still are able to hold them tight a little bit, but you don't want them to feel the pain that comes with them interacting with other people and just going through life experiences.

But knowing that, okay, they are their own person, like you said, giving them this agency, but keeping yourself healthy and whole so that you can support them in that is so important. And I know we're going to get into the self care piece a little bit later in your conversation.

Um, but just hearing that perspective is, I think, is super helpful and insightful. So we're talking about brand. You are the brand counselor. So let's just kind of set the stage. I love to get everybody on the same page.

So we know you know, what we're talking about, how things are defined. So let's set the foundation. What is a brand and what does branding entail?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:08:42

Absolutely. So your brand is essentially your reputation.

It's what people say about you when you're not in the room, but it's also your, your roots, it's your philosophy. It's the thing that really grounds your work toward, like, something that you really want to dig down and spread to other people.

I think oftentimes when we think about branding, we think about the visuals, we think about the videos and, like, what it looks like to push it out into the world. But the reality is before you push it out into the world, it has to have a defined identity. Right? So we got to think about it like this.

If you are dating someone and you're like, I'm dating to marry, right? You're not just going to marry anybody. Like, purchasing something is like a marriage.

What you want is someone who resonates with you, who makes you feel good, who actually has a great personality that by themselves, like, oh, you see them doing cool things and it's like, oh, I admire this. This is awesome. But then when they're with you, they make you feel good.

They, like, help you become more fulfilled in yourself and, like, they're actually doing the work.

So a brand is a person or an entity that is kind of doing the work to be, like, real and whole in themselves and then also helping you to become real and whole in yourself as well.

Phylicia Pough: 00:10:02

Mm, that's so good. That's so good. So now we have what a brand is.

So I'm assuming there can be good brands and not so good brands, or you can have Good branding or not so great branding? So can you kind of explain or set the foundation for what it means to have a powerful brand? Or how do you know that your brand is actually impactful?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:10:24

Yeah, absolutely. So a brand that's impactful is one that can actually maintain honesty and integrity. Right?

So oftentimes people will build stuff because somebody said something to them, and it's like, this would be great for your brand. This would be awesome.

But the fact of the matter is, we can't move with the sway of what other people want constantly, because then we'll constantly be changing.

Like, and if we're always changing, if we're always changing direction, we never really get to our destination, and that's always what we want to do with the brand. A brand isn't just like a thing for no reason. We're moving towards something. So a powerful brand is a consistent brain.

If I'm looking at all of your things, I see that you have the same messaging everywhere. You have the same motivations everywhere. You serve a very specific client everywhere.

And I mean, even if you serve a specific client, other people can still come in. Everybody's welcome. But we know who you are and what you're actually about, no matter where we look at you.

And we can see that work not just in your words, but also in the experience that we gather from you. Right. If you say you're about moms and you're talking to moms, like you talk about things that moms care about.

If one day you're talking about something random that maybe, like, an athlete cares about or just an athlete, right. Cares about, then it's like, oh, wait, is this. Is this really for me? Then you stop calling in your people.

You want to continuously call in your people, and that's what makes you strong.

Phylicia Pough: 00:11:57

That's so good.

So, okay, now this has got me thinking, just from your experience, because I know you probably look at businesses and you just naturally probably look at their branding or say, oh, this is a great brand. Right? So what are some of those businesses that, for you, you can look at or have been some of your favorite brands that are powerful and impactful.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:12:17

Tabitha Brown. Oh, my gosh, the consistency is delicious. I have no other way to put that. Right. Because she has been so. She's so kind. She's so sweet.

She has, you know, put out the stuff that has been, like, very authentic to her.

But when it comes to saying no to things, it's been so good to watch because she'll get opportunities and they'll say, like, oh, well, you know, we love the way you are. We love how your audience responds to you, but can you do this instead?

And she'll be like, no, she is not moved by the money, and the money keeps coming. And it's been excellent to watch how her brand has grown because of her integrity.

Like, there's nothing separating her from the her that she is and the her that she puts out. And then even watching specifically, like, her target licensing situation, she's not just putting her name on any piece of equipment.

She's talking about the quality assurance process, where she's saying, like, oh, this air fryer, it's so beautiful. It's great. But it's so loud. Right? Like, she wants her audience to have a Tabitha Brown experience, no matter what her name is on it is.

It's just so good.

Phylicia Pough: 00:13:36

I think that is a great example, actually.

But it made me think about how sometimes people have this brand, and I'm quoting for those of you who can't see me, they have this brand on social media, but then when you meet the person in real life, I've seen this people post about this. Oh, I met them in real life. And they weren't anything like what they are on social media, or it just seems like a disconnect.

And so can you speak to how people can kind of be the brand on social media, but also make sure that that is who they are in real life as well?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:14:11

Yeah, yeah. Your brand doesn't. Your brand doesn't generate from nowhere. Your brand shouldn't generate from nowhere.

And your brand should not be moved just from what people want from you and just from what will sell in the moment.

So oftentimes when people are putting things out on social media, they're thinking about the algorithms, they're thinking about what's trending, they're thinking about, you know, anything that's going to get them noticed or popular for the moment. But the more we think about brands in ephemeral terms like that momentary, like, jumps, the more we weaken the equity of our brand.

We should always be thinking about more alignment than anything else. Does this trend align with the brand that I want to put out in the world? Do these sounds or whatever, is there alignment?

So we get alignment by understanding our mission, vision and values, and then we kind of use those to measure if those other things actually fit for us. So when you meet us, we are always operating in those same mission, vision and values. Our values are who we are. It's what we do.

So if online I'm doing something Else, but in person I'm doing something else. Like, who am I really?

Phylicia Pough: 00:15:27

Who am I really? I feel like this conversation is thought provoking for me. So guys, just bear with me here.

So that makes me think about also, like faith based business owners. They, they say that their faith is a core value for them personally, but then that doesn't always translate into the business part of it.

Not saying that you have to service Christian or that you have to speak Bible or any of those things, but if I see that you're online, you know, using language that does not align with that core value, or doing things that does not align with their core value, it again is a disconnect. And it feels like, it feels like fraud.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:16:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does feel like fraud. So for something like that, I would say this. People can only walk in the level of integrity that they have unearthed for themselves in the moment.

Sometimes they are just where they are. And the audience that they have and the audience that's going to resonate with them, it's not everybody, right?

One of the, one of the best things about brand strategy is, you know, there's attraction. We get to attract the people who are for us. But a big part of brand strategy is also repulsion.

So the people who are not for us, they also get pushed away as well.

And because businesses and brands are growing constantly and changing constantly, the same way that we are, like, whatever we know and are in the moment, that's our current state of integrity. And we can only do with that what we have right now.

And then we kind of continue growing and then we continue bringing people into the story of our growth and our change. Right.

So many of us have been afraid to grow in front of other people because of the idea of being like, criticized or like, oh my God, they're gonna see me, they're gonna perceive me, and then like, they're gonna get rid of me and, you know, whatever. But we really have to be brave enough to tell the story of who we are and where we are right now.

And as consumers, we have to be brave enough as well to reject people too. Like, if this doesn't match our values, then they're not for us. Like, again, alignment. If it's not aligned, just let it go. Right?

Phylicia Pough: 00:17:52

And that's okay, right? Because that's okay. I'm in a season where I'm. I felt like I, I'm being pushed to be more intentional about the people that I connect with.

And so I'm having to look at those different things. And so hearing your Perspective is definitely helpful.

But I want to kind of circle back to this idea of powerful brand that we started with earlier in the conversation. Right. So we understand what the powerful brand is. But how can being a, again, quote, a good brand stifle you from being a powerful brand?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:18:27

Yeah, okay, that is a great question. So being a good brand.

So whenever I use the idea of good or good girl or, you know, anything of that sort, I think about how other people can kind of drive us toward our decision making that is, again, outside of alignment. Right. So oftentimes when we are, let's say, raised in the church or we are daughters, this idea of survival is put into us, Right?

Like we want to say we want to stay safe. So we have to dress certain ways and act certain ways, be acceptable by certain people in order to garner protection from those people.

We have to be good. We have to earn our safety over and over again, Right.

So that same mindset can fall into our business selves and we can still be looking for that same protection, that same safety that makes us want other people to think that we are safe so that they give us the protection that whatever protection that they can give us, which kind of leads us to moving in directions that they want. Like, maybe this is the service that I offered today, but somebody said that they, it doesn't fit them.

And so now I'm going to make a change because it doesn't fit this one person, but that's not how I offer it.

So now that breaks down the, the ability for me to offer this thing well to people who actually want it and actually want to work with me, like in this specific way. Right. So now I'm reducing my power. In fact, I'm giving my power away to somebody else. I'm saying to them, like, well, I.

I'm at your beck and call and I hope you think I'm good. Like, please think I'm good. Everyone doesn't need to think you're good. Everyone doesn't need to think anything positive about you at all.

Frankly, the people who are for you, they'll think about you the way they need to think about you if you've positioned yourself properly. So being good is kind of an enemy of being powerful. Heavy on the air quotes for both of those things.

But it really is about standing in wholeness, being integrated in what you desire to offer and what you actually offer.

Phylicia Pough: 00:20:52

Yeah.

And as you're talking, it makes me think about how so much of how we show up in business as our business selves, like you said, Stems from who we are as human beings outside of business and how we've been conditioned from childhood and how that then kind of shows up this idea of wanting to be liked and wanting to be perceived as good again, that's something that was ingrained into us from when we were younger. You know, you want to be good for your mom, right?

But we don't know as the moms that this is how it's going to really translate as the kids get older. So really interesting dynamics. Lynn.

You kind of are now the adult and you're looking back and seeing how you were shaped and now how you have to kind of not change, but have to be more intentional about how you're interacting with your own children so that how you're parenting them doesn't. And this can't be 100% because people are going to do what they're going to do at the end of the day, right?

But being intentional in how you're doing it so it doesn't end up being something that's traumatic and that they have to heal from. And this whole idea of being good keeping you from being powerful.

Like, I know for me personally, there have been times I did struggle with that because you want to be quote, unquote liked so people can buy your stuff, but then can pull you away from doing what it is that you really are supposed to be doing and in the way that you need to do it, because you're so busy trying to cater to other people doing it ways that they desire, instead of how you are most powerful in doing it. Right. So super interesting concept. So I want to talk about your brand a little bit.

We've been talking about branding just as a concept for your brand. I know part of your brand highlights this idea of self care, and we started talking about that earlier on. But for you, what does that actually mean?

And what does it look like for you as a. As a business owner?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:22:54

Oh my gosh. Self care is my damn. So self care to me is just opening the door to actually, like, be yourself and engage yourself properly.

So one day I was sitting in therapy and she was, she was talking to me about how. How change can only happen with love. Sustainable change only happens with love.

Um, and like, oftentimes if you're trying to do something, if you're trying to will yourself in that direction because, like, grr, you're supposed to like, I'm. I'm getting fit because I hate my body, right? It's not going to be sustainable. It's not going to be Healing, it's not going to be beautiful.

It's really just going to be a process that you dread doing because you're already doing it from a place where your nervous system is spiking and trying to protect you, right? So everything is like that.

If everything we're doing is coming from a place of a spiked nervous system, we are always coming from a place of depression and anxiety.

Like depression and anxiety exist in the back of our minds in the amygdala where it is forcing our body into submission because it thinks whatever we're doing is going to kill us. Right? The, the brain can't tell the difference between real or imagined pain. It can't tell the difference.

So now we're operating in these businesses that require risk. Our body doesn't like risk at all, but we're trying to force it and say like, hey, this is, you know, we have to do this, this is good for you.

And our bodies are going to fight back one way or another. Whether it's burnout, whether it's fatigue, whether it's just like fits of rage, it's going to happen.

So instead of, you know, doing it scared, I always instead say to myself that I have to do it cared, right?

So asking myself in the moments, what are ways that I can take care of myself to actually activate my body to move lovingly toward what it is that I'm trying to do.

So for me, self care, it's not like shopping and it's not like you know, the bubble baths and the things, but it's about my, my energy, my self esteem and my experiences, energy being, you know, how am I taking care of myself spiritually, mentally, emotionally, like community wise. Like what's coming into me esteem, how am I aligning my work, my life toward my mission or my calling?

Like how are the things actually coming in and fulfilling me and reminding me that oh, this is what God has me here to do. Oh, that feels great. And then lastly there is experience.

Then it's just like, oh, you know, now I'm gonna go skating with my pastel colored skates and I'm gonna take my little dog shaped bubble machine and like, you know, go do something that's just like, just going to energize me as me.

One of the things that I did a few years ago was I made a list of things that I enjoyed as a kid because I feel like when we think about our childhood like we can, we can pull the most care and most understanding about ourselves from those spaces. So I asked myself what Are those things that I. That I enjoy and need in those moments, like, and I build my experiences around those things.

Obviously, as an adult, like, I'm a, you know, I'm a go to a beautiful restaurant and I'm gonna kick it with my friends or whatever.

But sometimes in those alone moments, like the skating and the bubbles and the journaling or the buying something, like, pretty and ridiculous, like a little hello Kitty statue, that's what I need in the moment. So it's really about being able to build from a place of love all the time, as much as possible.

Getting back there so that we can build for ourselves, but we can also build in community. In those ways when we approach each other from that perspective, everything looks different.

Phylicia Pough: 00:27:00

Oh, my goodness. That was such a great breakdown and a different perspective. I've never heard anyone talk about self care in that manner.

So thank you for sharing that. What did you say? Energy, esteem, and experience and coming from a place of love. That's so, so good. Okay, guys, go ahead. Rewind.

Listen to that part again, okay? And start implementing some. Some of that self care because we. We really need it. That's so true. Like, coming from a place instead of that.

That hustle, I need to, like, push, push, push. Oh, my goodness. So good. So good. Yeah.

So in addition to self care, is there anything else that's kind of helped you through the journey of mompreneurship? You know, managing the intersection of motherhood and entrepreneurship?

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:27:48

I mean, I guess this kind of still counts as self care, but therapy, girl, so much therapy. Being able to have that space where I am not somebody's something is huge.

For me to be able to speak candidly to somebody and say, like, oh, no, girl, this sucks, and I don't actually know what to do, and these are my feelings. And I think everybody's a poopy head. Like, it has been. It's been a fantastic experience to have the space that is really, like, just for me.

And I, like, it's hard for me to separate these.

These ideas of things that work from self care because I consider so many of these things self care, like the therapy or, like, hanging out with my community, because community care is self care.

The concept of self care came from, I think, the Black Panthers when they were giving community care to, like, the black community, because it's like, well, now you have these, like, attacks on your lives and you're hungry. Like, what are we going to do? Right?

Like, at least you can be attacked, but, like, your belly is full and you know that you're loved and you're cared for, and that actually changes your perspective on your abilities in the moments when the attacks are actually coming towards you.

I think the funniest thing about it is, if I'm remembering this correctly, the Black Panthers weren't really considered a threat until they were doing community care.

Because if you're activated all the time, if you're, like, carrying guns and, you know, thinking about, like, you know, harming, Harming your opposition, then you are seen as the opposition. Then you are seen as, like, a threat to take care of, right? But if you're actually cared for, you're way more powerful.

You can actually think to create, like, economic powers and you can think to, like, build your communities and things like that. But, you know, if. If that's not what you want for, for people, then that's when you begin to attack.

Community care is self care, our ability to care for each other and, like, show up and engage and, you know, be in it together. Like, it is something that we really need. I think. Other than that, I'm always reading. Like, I am.

I am literally always reading, like, if we're getting specific about things. Like, I love philosophy books and I find it very hard to read fiction, but I'm starting to, like, get into it now too.

I just read a book called A Sky Full of Elephants, and it was, it was actually, no, I listened to that one. I thought that was going to be a good listen.

And it was, it was about a world where it was like, just black people and like, what happens in that world and how we kind of engage ourselves differently where we are.

We're not coming from a place of survival, but what happens when we engage with, like, our original creativity and love that has been obscured or, like, misused throughout our lifetime. And it was, it was an interesting story to listen to. And another one was the Courage to Be Disliked.

That one, I got something different than I anticipated with that one because it was really talking about Adlerian psychology, Adler's psychology, philosophy, and what it looks like to engage yourself not from the space of inferiority, but to engage understanding that, that people can like or dislike you and you can still contribute to society. Like, and that's not on you to make them like you. I was like, oh, this is really. This is good. So, yeah, I read a lot.

Phylicia Pough: 00:31:46

No, I. I feel like I used to read a lot. I feel like in the next couple years I'll start reading again once these kids are a little bit older.

But, oh, my goodness, I feel like we can as Always keep these conversations going on forever. But I know you wrote an ebook, so I want you to tell us about that and then tell us how we can connect with you.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:32:09

Yes. So it is called Good Girl Gone Brand. So it is all about the process of, you know, releasing the good girl identity.

And also, you know, what it looks like to build a brand from the space of having a good, you know, mission, understanding your audience, building your positioning, and then getting your presence out there. So it's really about, like, how do you own yourself in the moment so that when the winds of change blow, your roots are deep enough?

So when the winds of change blow, or when the winds of any kind of adversity blow, you're still standing there. You're still standing there strong.

Phylicia Pough: 00:32:51

So I'm definitely excited about the ebook as well. And so we'll definitely put that link in the show description.

I just wanted to circle back because I remembered something you said about the therapy piece. Having that space where you're not somebody's anything and you can just be you. I think that is so important to have.

Like, I 100% agree with you because these kids, they shadow you all day, every day. You got a husband who swaddles you all day every. Or he would if he could spin. Oh, my goodness. It is so necessary.

And I'm so glad that you mentioned that therapy, especially for the black community, is not taboo.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:33:34

It's. It's not.

Phylicia Pough: 00:33:36

That's a whole separate conversation. Get into therapy. It will bless your life. Okay, so I just wanted to mention that.

But yes, let people know how we can connect with you, all the things so they can keep in touch.

Olivia Denton Thomas: 00:33:50

Sure. Everywhere on the Internet. I am the brand counselor. And if you want to come directly to my website, it is wintentional, like, intentional.

But with the W.com you can. You can find me there. You can sign up for my newsletter, and we can be friends in real life.

Like, if you're ready to go from hustling to wholeness, like, through brand strategy. Let's go. I'm excited.

Phylicia Pough: 00:34:16

Yes. That was so, so good. And we will link all of that in the show notes so you guys can easily access.

Olivia, thank you so much for coming in, chatting with us today and just enlightening us, gracing us with your presence and your wonderful spirit. It has been a pleasure as always, guys. Thank you so much for tuning in and we'll see you in the next episode.

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